Pork Chop

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Posts by Pork Chop

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  1

  Prok Chop - JW Statistics Issues

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi pork chop: i am breaking out your comment from my jc analysis to a separate thread.

  you make an insightful post, but i think i can be of help to clarify why my analysis may be valid, with a reasonable margin of error.. you said, generalizing from very limited statistical data doesn't really have any validity.

  it so happens that i have served in nine congregations and in those congregations i know of two cases of child molestation, in both cases the perps went to jail.

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  Pork Chop

  Just in the interests of accuracy, I said I knew two. One other was falsely accused.

  Frankly I find the 117 and certainly 300* number of victims per molester to be rather unbelievable. That certainly wasn't the case in the instances that I'm familiar with. I'd like to see the supporting documentation. In such a tightly controlled and paranoiacally (is that a word?) observed society as Jehovah's Witnesses I just don't think that could happen. Who even knows 117 kids?

  Yes, I saw your "IF." However, I don't think many did and they immediately started treating the numbers like Gospel)That happens most of the time when someone trots out some nice negative statistics. A much higher burden of proof is required for anything positive about the Organization.

  Yes, I'd really like to see a valid statistical sample on this issue. I'm fairly familiar with the polling process and I'm not sure this falls into the same category as asking someone if they prefer Bush to Gore. I understand your methodology but am not yet convinced of its validity. I'm very familiar with testing batch lots of components and as you say, the results cannot be extrapolated to large numbers outside the batch which seems to be what you're doing here. The nice thing about batches of components is you can really get your hands around something and you have the ability to use historical data to support the validity of your testing. Yes, you used 'conservatism' but you used it arbitrarily, too many assumptions for my taste.

  This is a serious issue, even one molester is too many. I'd really like to see it nailed down.

  As a side comment. I've found your justice series posts very interesting. I've got a few horror stories of my own, but not as many as you. I have to say that most judicial cases I've seen have been handled pretty much according to the specified procedures and with relatively few injustices within the framework laid out by the Organization.
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  12

  JW Pedophiles as early as 1970?

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  at my first district convention in oakland, ca at the raiders stadium, i was eager to help out in anyway i could.

  3. when i was done with the quiet sign during the session, i went to the attendant dept.

  the dept head said that i could walk the bathrooms during session walk the what?

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  Pork Chop

  Man, I've been an Attendant a lot and that's a new one on me. Must be a geographic thing. Never heard about the qualifications to count either.
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  10

  JCs, Judging, & Jury Duty.

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  okay everyone, ai cannot believe what has just happened to me.

  here i type away publishing my jc series showing how untrained and at times incompetant men should not be sitting in judgment of their fellow jws, when i get a summons from the cook, county office to appear for jury duty in chicago.

  [don't they understand that al cappone said that there are no gangsters in chicago?

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  Pork Chop

  Let me tell you Amazing. When they're going through the jury selection process they ask a very limited number of very specific questions. Highly unlikely your 'background' would ever come up.
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  47

  Pedophile JC Analysis

  by Amazing in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the title to this post sounds impressive, but i am not going to do to much here that is too technical, except to draw attention to the general scope of jw justice, and the shear battlefield of religious victims.

  i will evaluate just the usa statistics.

  many of my numbers are estimates, but i have reason to believe that they are generally representative of reality.. there are about 1,000,000 jws in the usa, in about 7,000 congregations.

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  Pork Chop

  Generalizing from very limited statistical data doesn't really have any validity. It so happens that I have served in nine congregations and in those congregations I know of two cases of child molestation, in both cases the perps went to jail. I know of one case of alleged molestation that the authorities determined was bogus. However, my personal experience is no more valid statistically than Amazing's. Nine congregations is just too small a sample.

  I hate sweeping generalizations, something the Organizations is notoriously guilty of using
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  93

  Position on College Changed?

  by Maximus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  several have made outright statements and others have suggested that the society's negative position on higher education has changed.

  'the society does not discourage higher education where i live.

  ' worse, 'apostates have made it all up--the society has never discouraged education.

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  Pork Chop

  Attitude on this matter various enormously from congregation to congregation, and from area to area. I know of a couple of elders that are in college right now, and a whole bunch of younger people. I've also heard any number of parents say their kids are going to school no matter what. So far it's been no big deal aside from a few comments from one or two reactionary old fools that no one is paying much attention to. It'll be interesting to see if the KM parts make a difference.
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  5

  ? on new Ministry School

  by why144000 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read the summary on a couple of days of the dc.

  i am interested if anyone has more specific information on the changes to the ministry school.

  will the bible reading stay in its present format?

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  Pork Chop

  The reading is just going to be a straight reading, no introductory or closing comments, and it won't be the Bible all of the time. The idea is to improve public reading skills, and that's certainly needed.

  As far as the counsel slip goes. it's kind of strange. There'll be points to work on, the School Overseer just writes it down when you start on a point and then when you're finished with it. I guess maybe they're conserving paper?

  The Bible highlights get longer and the instruction talk gets shorter.
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  95

  Org. Re-orging in JAPAN

  by JWD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who haven`t been following it,the wts is in a downward spiral here in japan.fs hours are down,memorial attendance.

  is down,pioneers are down,studies are down,donations are down,number.

  of congregations is down and the number of publishers continues to.

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  Pork Chop

  JWD my understanding has been that Loyd Barry was almost worhsipped in Japan. Has his demise had any effect?
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  29

  Did the elders keep secret files on us?

  by XJWBill in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  howdy all,.

  i've recently discovered all the great ex-jw sites on the internet, and i've enjoyed reading other people's stories.

  but a few passing comments in some stories have made me wonder: do or did the elders keep files on individuals in each congregation?

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  Pork Chop

  JT is absolutely correct. No individual records are kept other than Publisher's Record Cards and sealed judicial files. Paranoia is running amok again.
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  49

  murder letter

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lets dance, we have added "wt letters" section to the website.

  it will offer a new letter each week added to a list with an introduction.

  read the introduction, click to view the letter and see if it answers the questions.

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  Pork Chop

  Sounds like paranoid central to me. I am not, have never been, and have no intention of ever being a member of the WT legal staff. I just thought someone might be interested in the facts. Guess I was wrong.
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  49

  murder letter

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lets dance, we have added "wt letters" section to the website.

  it will offer a new letter each week added to a list with an introduction.

  read the introduction, click to view the letter and see if it answers the questions.

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  Pork Chop

  While this letter seems to have struck many as very wrong, any other course would be a violation of the law because this is privileged information. In almost every state the Law is very similar to New Jersey's as follows:

  "The first issue is whether any correspondence or any communications in the files of the Vicar for Priests is protected by the "cleric-penitent" privilege. The cleric-penitent privilege is codified at N.J.S.A. 2A:84A-23,See footnote 2 which provides:
  Any communication made in confidence to a cleric in the cleric's professional character, or as a spiritual advisor in the course of the discipline or practice of the religious body to which the cleric belongs or of the religion which the cleric professes, shall be privileged. Privileged communications shall include confessions and other communications made in confidence between and among the cleric and individuals, couples, families or groups in the exercise of the cleric's professional or spiritual counseling role.

  As used in this section, "cleric" means a priest, rabbi, minister or other person or practitioner authorized to perform similar functions of any religion. The privilege accorded to communications under this rule shall belong to both the cleric and the person or persons making the communication and shall be subject to waiver only under the following circumstances:

  (1) both the person or persons making the communication and the ccleric consent to the waiver of the privilege; or
  (2) the privileged communication pertains to a future criminal act, in which case, the cleric alone may, but is not required to, waive the privilege.

  The codified privilege was revised by the Legislature in response to a narrow interpretation given the privilege in State v. Szemple, 135 N.J. 406 < http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/caselink.cgi?cite=135%20N.J.%20406>; (1994). Szemple held that the statute conferred a testimonial privilege only on clergypersons, and that the clergypersons "alone may elect to waive the privilege in their sole discretion and within the dictates of their religious beliefs." Id. at 422-23. Thus, the penitent need not consent to the disclosure of a confession. Id. at 423. In 1994, the Legislature revised the privilege "with unmistakable clarity to confer on both the cleric and on the party who made the communication the power to prevent its disclosure." Biunno, Current N.J. Rules of Evidence, comment 3 to N.J.R.E. 511 (1998-99). "Both the cleric and the penitent are now holders of the privilege." Ibid."

  The same course would be followed by minsters of any religion, attorneys, some kinds of social workers, etc.